Sometimes the best way to present a subject is to let those
involved speak for themselves. Below you will find an actual forum exchange between members
after a potential client posted a logo and web site design
competition. Please don’t miss the valuable links placed at the end
of the discussion.
The Creative Latitude Logo Design Competition Protest Form
can be downloaded here.
From: XXXX
To: ALL
We are a leader in web design and marketing for the touristic
industry. We are looking for new talented graphic designers!
Instead of asking for your cv/resume we decided to post a
competition. Entries can be screen shots or jpg or gif with
demo on it if you want to protect your work.
You can choose to do all or any one of the following projects:
Two logos and a design concept for a Web Portal.
All work must be original, please no copywrite infringement!
1st prize: Prize is $800
$300 cash plus a guaranteed minimum of $500 worth of graphic
design work within the next 6 months
If you submit all three projects and we choose all three,
you win 1st Prize.
2nd prize: Prize is $400
$200 cash plus a guaranteed minimum of $200 worth of graphic
design work within the next 6 months
If we choose two of your submissions, you win 2nd Prize.
3rd prize: Prize is $200
$100 cash plus a guaranteed minimum of $100 worth of graphic
design work within the next 6 months
If we choose one of your submissions, you win 3rd Prize.
Once chosen as a winner, we will pay you the immediate cash
prize amount either through a credit card payment link that
you provide, paypal, or an international bank transfer.
You are responsible to provide us with the original layered
file, either psd, illustrator, fla or whatever program you
used to create the image work.
From: the cat
To: ALL
I'm just gonna sit here and wait for Habib
From: Helen
To: the cat
lol..Yes, I'm sure he'll have a few things to say :)
From: the cat
To: Helen
LOL!! You betcha. I'm just gonna sit this out and watch the
fireworks.
<<1st prize: Prize is $800
$300 cash plus a guaranteed minimum of $500 worth of graphic
design work within the next 6 months>>
$300 and a promise that you can WORK FOR THE REST OF YOUR
PRIZE??!!
For three designs!?
Sitting back again, waiting, waiting.
From: TIPPER17
To: the cat
Anyone game to write the original poster and give him our
2 cents of what we think of his contest?
From: the cat
To: TIPPER17
What, and ruin it all?
Really, I'd rather wait for the voice of reason.
Much better Habib controls the situation. He is so very good!
:-)
From: Celia
To: ALL
I'm also waiting for the ICHM (Inter-continental Habib Missile.
From: JANETLITTL1
To: the cat
They get a web site design and two logos (chosen from a wide
variety of submissions) for $1400.
Funny how such a "leader in web design and marketing"
declines to even identify themselves in such a prestigious
competition.
The sad thing is, they will get entries.
From: the cat
To: JANETLITTL1
The $1400 is an illusion.
If you look closer you will find each 'prize' only receives
a small percentage of the offered money, the rest is 'guaranteed'
as the amount of work they will send the winners way 'within
the next 6 months'.
So what they are saying is the winners will work for the balance
of the 'prize money'.
The most they will be paying is $600 for the web site design
and two logos.
I've got steam coming out of my nostrils at the thought.
Waiting for Habib . . . .
From: JANETLITTL
To: the cat
Yikes, good point -- I read it quickly and didn't even catch
that... much less the payment method!!
From: XXXX
To: the cat
Hi!
I didn't want to post our company name because I want to avoid
being added to spam and other unwanted lists. If you send
me an email, I will be happy to give you our complete history
:-)
I also want to thank you for pointing out the way I posted
the prize, I have amended this as well. I didn't mean to be
misleading, so I changed it to the cash prizes only. As for
payment, I couldn't think of any other way to convey my assurance
of payment. Since we are outside of the US it is difficult
to arrange payment. I only wanted to say that even if the
winner does not have Paypal or their own merchant account,
we will front the cost to transfer the money to you!
I am not looking to scam anyone, I am looking for "new"
& "upcoming" designers, who maybe are working
from home or do not have the overheads of a larger design
company and so can charge a bit less. It is very costly to
take risks on projects, when you have your own overheads to
consider. Sometimes you get stuck making a deposit on a project
and then finding that the designer does not provide the quality
that you were expecting, so this contest was the best way
we could think of to replace the task of looking at thousands
of portfolio's and resumes :-)
- by the way, who the heck is Habib?!?! :-)
From: FAITHMARTIN
To: XXXX
Dear XXXX:
Being of unsound mind, I will do a little enlightening.
I realize you have probably stumbled in here, rather unknowingly,
otherwise you wouldn't have posted your message.
A large majority of participants in this forum are established
professionals that make their sole living as graphic designers.
Or are people that are learning from the established professionals
about appropriate business practices.
This would be considered "spec" work. Highly frowned
upon by the graphic design community in general, with possibly
the exception of high-end advertising agencies that can afford
putting time and money into possibly very lucrative ventures.
(You know the $100,000 and up range!)
<by the way, who the heck is Habib?!?! :-)>
Habib is one of the above mentioned professional Independent
Contractors who is incredibly good and does very high-end
work. He is also one of our most vocal proponents of not doing
speculative work.
It may have been much better to have simply stated that you
were looking for someone to re-do your web site (and provided
a link to that site so the person could see what they were
up against) and create a logo (not in that order), that you
didn't have a lot of money to spend (state the range), and
if anybody were interested, to send a link to their online
portfolios.
The majority of people here do have some type of on-line portfolio,
so yes you would have had to wade through them, but a portfolio
is really the best way to view a designers style. That's why
they have them and professionals and/or students have poured
a lot of time and effort into those portfolios, so possible
clients can make a serious and informed decision.
This group in general is very sensitive to be sucked in, done
in, and screwed over. It's rampant in our profession these
days and frankly everyone is just damn sick and tired of it.
I hope that sheds some light.
From: the cat
To: FAITHMARTIN
[clapping, clapping, clapping]
Bravo!
You beat me to it beautifully - what charm! The way you phrased
that posting was very nicely done - a perfect balance of lights
and darks with just the right white space for maneuvering
XXXX seems like a nice person, just a little in the dark -
and since we are all here to learn, she has tripped into the
right place.
From: GRAFIXCHICK
To: FAITHMARTIN
Your message was very well-phrased and kindly gave XXXX (the
original poster of this thread) the benefit of the doubt.
Kudos!
From: BOBROACH
To: FAITHMARTIN
Habib is very understanding in these matters -- and that's
why he is so vocal -- he cares about the profession, and the
attacks on the collective reputation that this sort of spec
work inevitably supplies. And yes -- he is damn good.
I suspect he probably is spending more and more of his time
trying to find clients who appreciate the real value his level
of professionalism bring to his work -- that is, those who
haven't already been swayed by the cut rates of the lesser
professionals.
Our friend's reputation for fierceness is unfairly based on
his initial responses to these kind of posts. He's been with
us down that path so many times now -- but I have noticed
that his responses of late have been much more articulate,
precise and vividly phrased.
From: KIDAMADGE
To: XXXX
Hello XXXX,
I am not the infamous Habib, but am one of many graphic designers
who have thought carefully about the issue of spec work and
its ramifications to the business of graphic design.
The parameters of your contest flies in the face of a comment
you made about your own business.
You stated - "It is very costly to take risks on projects,
when you have your own overheads to consider. Sometimes you
get stuck making a deposit on a project and then finding that
the designer does not provide the quality that you were expecting,
so this contest was the best way we could think of to replace
the task of looking at thousands of portfolio's and resumes"
Have you considered the risk, the overhead, or the time of
the designers you are soliciting, or have you only considered
your own risk, overhead and time? It is unethical to do business
in such a manner. Good businesspeople realize that a free
market society works best when all the cogs in the wheel are
oiled. What you are practicing is a sweatshop mentality: you
are only looking out for yourself.
You may respond that a contest is voluntary and that you are
making a request only.
Actually what you are doing is taking advantage of an over
saturated industry in a soft market. There are a lot of designers,
desktop publishers and students looking for work and recognition,
many of whom are willing to take tremendous risks for the
chance to catch a break.
Because of these market conditions, it is easy to justify
that what you are doing is a service to those struggling most.
However, it is my guess that if you were seeking laborers
in a third world country, where unemployment is high, and
offered them the chance to be paid a days wages if, after
a days work, you found them to be satisfactory, that many
would succumb to the "opportunity". And many would
go home hungry while your fields would be tilled.
Speaking of wages, what you are offering as a "prize"
is a disgrace. Those figures would be low even if you were
guaranteeing payment.
For these reasons, I should tell you that those who will enter
your contest are not qualified to provide the type of work
that will catapult your business. They will be students who
are still learning as well as others who are content to master
software but not design theory.*
Bottom line, do not expect your identity to improve. Your
calculated move will only bite you, when, in another year,
you try to reinvent your identity again, because you were
not willing to invest the money or time to hire a professional
to create your image in the first place.
I hope you reconsider. My suggestion is to hire a designer
if you like the work. Of course, expect to pay a fair price.
I suspect you will be much happier in the end.
*A disclaimer to students: you may be very talented but until
you overcome the temptation to work on spec, you will do a
disservice to the business of graphic design.
From: XXXX
To: KIDAMADGE
Thanks for the info all. Sorry for the hassle. All your points
have been taken!!
From: KIDAMADGE
To: XXXX
Thanks for being humble.
I hope you have a greater appreciation for the conflict that
spec work has caused within the graphic design community.
We need to seek out opportunities to educate the business
community. There is no other way to change the perception
(except, of course, if all those who claim the title "graphic
designer" would refuse to take in spec work).
I wish you and your business the best, provided you take to
heart the ethical nature of which we've discussed.
From: BYTEHAUS <(- Habib has arrived!
To: BOBROACH
The reason I didn't butt in from the beginning was that last
time I did, I was attacked by the very ones that I tried to
protect from being taken advantage, newcomers and students.
I was told that I should let them make their own decisions
and that we, pros shouldn't tell them how to conduct their
business.
>Habib is very understanding in these matters-- and that's
why he is so vocal-- he cares about the profession, and the
attacks on the collective reputation that this sort of spec
work inevitably supplies. And yes-- he is damn good.<
Thanks again. I do enjoy and I will continue to protect our
eroding industry, as long as I have the support of my colleagues.
You all did a pretty good job without my help, so I stayed
away for a change.
I have a feeling that our friend who started this thread has
been here before and got what he/she wanted. I also have a
feeling by the quick retrieval that he/she is going to get
(if he/she hasn't already) what he/she came after.
From: BYTEHAUS
To: XXXX
> - by the way, who the heck is Habib?!?! :-)<
Let me introduce myself, my name is Habib Bajrami. I’m
a graphic designer. I’ve been doing graphic design since
1985 and started my own business (working from home) in 1997.
I specialize in branding and strategic design that caters
to your bottom line, whatever that might be.
Honestly, I didn't even read your offer for spec but couldn't
help noticing that you are in need of corporate identity.
Every client, new or existing gets the same treatment from
me. Minimum 40 hours of research and design time for corporate
identity. My hourly rate is CDN $XX.00, almost nothing comparing
to what agencies and high-end studios charge, but than I don't
have a million dollar reception to pay for.
If my terms and fees appeal to you, give me a call. We'll
draw up a contract, you'll pay the deposit and you will get
an identity that you will be proud to show it around for many
years to come. That's not a promise, that's a guarantee.
From: the cat
To: BYTEHAUS
Your comments always have people sitting up to attention.
I for one have revised my opinion upwards after reading your
thoughts on where we as designers fit into this world.
I wouldn't have your methods any other way - they are informative,
articulate and passionate.
From: BOBROACH
To: the cat
>>I wouldn't have your methods any other way - they
are informative, articulate and passionate<<
And of course... worth 'waiting for'.
From: the cat
To: BOBROACH
worth 'waiting for' . . . of course :-)
Habib mentioned that XXXX realized what the reception at this
forum would be beforehand but was counting on results garnered.
I'm thinking that without the education of designers there
is no education of clients so he/she did all a favour by keeping
this subject coming up fresh.
Eventually I will manage replies with claws tucked safely
in but for now I'll pass the pleasure to others while purrrring
away in the anticipation of the pounce.
From: BYTEHAUS
To: the cat
>Your comments have people sitting up to attention. <
I must say I am sorry that I had to disappoint all of you
for having my missiles tucked under ground this time. Honestly,
I don't know how I managed to keep it calm.
>Habib mentioned that XXXX realized what the reception
at this forum would be beforehand but was counting on results
garnered.<
I think this was the same XXXX that got the cover for $XX
awhile ago, but than I might be wrong. My apologies if I am
wrong.
>I'm thinking that without the education of designers there
is no education of clients so he/she did all a favour by keeping
this subject coming up fresh.<
I just wish that there were more educated clients out there
so we didn't have to do all that educating.
>Eventually I will manage replies with claws tucked safely
in but for now I'll pass the pleasure to others while purrrring
away in the anticipation of the pounce. <
Claws should be tucked away but always on alert. There are
too many wolfs in sheep's skin.
From: AlinaDesign
To: BYTEHAUS
I just want you to know that I second all the great things
that have been said about you, your forum comments and your
design work. I have the highest respect for you.
Thanks so much for helping to make graphic design the profession
it should be.
From: the cat
To: BYTEHAUS
<<I am sure that you already knew where our place is
in the world>>
Nope. Before I came to this forum I was unaware of spec, contracts,
proposals, client/designer relations, billing . . .
This forum has been my teacher - my projects the training
ground. It's been a hard road so I wouldn't recommend it to
anyone - get a degree is my advice.
I've done all the wrong things (working on spec, etc) now
I'm 'almost' grown up thanks to the generous contributions
you and others make on this forum.
And for all of you out there thinking of wasting time and
brain cells with XXXXs or other 'contest/spec' jobs - taking
Habib's (and others) advice has made a HUGE difference to
my blood pressure. Avoiding being taken for a ride because
of my (and my clients) ignorance keeps me out of trouble and
saves on the crockery.
Retracting the claws
From: the cat
To: ALL
<<I also want to thank you for pointing out the way
I posted the prize, I have amended this as well. I didn't
mean to be misleading, so I changed it to the cash prizes
only. >>>
Well gee, what a surprise - I submitted a yahoo address for
the design competition to check out what they were up to and
guess what? After going up to the competition site, they haven’t
changed anything as promised.
. . . . My, my, they only have 14 suckers (hope for GD yet?)
So much for a ‘leader in web design and marketing for
the touristic industry’.
. . . . . watch out for a wolf in sheeps clothing, the wise
man said.
From: BYTEHAUS
To: the cat
>I've done all the wrong things (working on spec, etc)
now I'm 'almost' grown up thanks to the generous contributions
you and others make on this forum. I've done all the wrong
things (working on spec, etc) now I'm 'almost' grown up thanks
to the generous contributions you and others make on this
forum. <
Why do you think I’m so against spec work? Been there-done
that. I was fresh out of college and accepted my first freelance
gig on spec. Spent about twenty hours breathing marker fumes
and shaking rapidiograph pens, cutting rubilyth and burnishing
transfer type, just to end up with that awful taste in my
mouth after realizing that I had been taken for a ride.
>Retracting the claws <
Way too soon, as you have already realized.
From: BYTEHAUS
To: the cat
> . . . watch out for a wolf in sheeps clothing, the wise
man said.<
Didn't I tell you that it is to soon to retract the claws.
People who request spec work they already know that it is
wrong and they do prey on the young and naive. There is nothing
stopping them but a good kick in the butt. That is why I am
so vocal (as some of you put it), I've seen them coming back
over and over again, all they have to do is throw a different
name and put on a different mask.
From: the cat
To: BYTEHAUS
<<Didn't I tell you that it is to soon to retract the
claws>>
You sure did, and the next time one of these imposters come
up here I'll assist in the butt kicking - we'll howl together.
Spitting mad I am
From: BYTEHAUS
To: the cat
>You sure did, and the next time one of these imposters
come up here I'll assist in the butt kicking - we'll howl
together. <
It's a deal.
As promised - links to articles and downloads on spec work
and design competitions:
Jeff Fisher of award winning LogoMotives
- “A true design competition should be for work a designer
has already completed. ‘Competitions’ that are requests
for a designer to produce and submit new work, with a dangling
‘carrot’ of possible payment or future projects
down the road, are nothing more than stealth efforts to get
design work for free - better known as speculative work.”
Neil Tortorella of Tororella
Design and member of the Creative Latitude Management
Team - ” Your organization’s logo is its face before
the public. It is the visual expression of its culture, mission
and scope. Creating a logo competition significantly reduces
your chances of finding a suitable mark. It may be ‘pretty’,
but without the research behind it, it's bound to be off the
target. Plus, there are reproduction issues with a logo that
must be taken into consideration.” - Excerpt from the
Creative Latitude Logo Design Competition Protest Form. Download
here.
Spec
Work - Just Say No! - Judy Litt, forum moderator for about.com
“You need to make a decision on how to handle spec work
before someone asks you to work for free. Some designers feel
that the potential work is worth the risk, and that's fine
as long as you understand what you're risking. Decide where
you stand, and stick to your guns.” - Judy Litt
To
Spec or Not to Spec - AIGA
“I will admit that we once did some speculative work
for a potential client, so my high horse is more of a kneeling
pony. I still regret doing it, and not because we didn't get
the job (we didn't, but does anyone? Why does it always seem
that the spec project goes to the firm that, at some point,
had had a previous relationship with the client? Is it a reality
check for the client? A chance to get free ideas?) but because
I knew that, even when doing it, my charitable efforts should
have been going toward helping out an organization that was
truly in need. Or toward planting tomatoes. Or to doing anything
other than reaffirming the misconception that graphic design
is cheap, fast, and easy. Or maybe it is for other people,
but I kind of doubt it.” - Alexander Isley
Competitions:
Good Or Bad? - Icograda
“The past decade has seen a roaring development in both
the (design) professional's and the industry's design application.
Among the most important achievements is the increased understanding
that design consists of a number of related elements: product,
packaging, web, graphic, identity, interior design, architecture
etc., that all go together and all relate to a company's identity,
strategy and culture! But, is this understanding reflected
out there in the real world? Profession-wise we argue the
importance of the designer, being 'involved from the very
beginning' (from before the project is defined) and that one
must integrate design in company organizations and use it
as a strategic, managerial tool. However, in the sphere of
competitions, this goal is often forfeited because the initial
competition concept isn't properly formulated. The result
is frustration - not least among designers and architects.”
- Thomas Dickson, Designer MDD, MAA
Why We Don’t Make Speculative Presentations - Creative
Business
“We know that a small business like ours (probably yours,
too) has to watch costs carefully and can't afford to give
much away. If we weren't careful, if we did give away our
time, it is likely we wouldn't be here next time you called,
which means you'd have to start all over again bringing someone
else up to speed learning your business. We doubt you'd want
that, and we know we wouldn't. We believe we should both be
looking to build a long-term, mutually-productive an cost-efficient
business relationship.”
Policy
on General Project Competition Rules - RGD Ontario
“Evaluate several members or firms through referrals,
interviews, professional standing and presentation of their
past work. By reviewing the work of several designers, a client
can match a designer's expertise to the requirements of a
particular project, rather than having too many design firms
competing on a project. While this process requires more investment
of time for each candidate, it reduces the number of candidates
that require client evaluation, and provides evaluation at
a more thorough level.”
Getting
Past Spec Pitches:
“Pitches tend to produce pretty pictures, but not great
solutions. Creative pitches take a lot of the client’s
time and attention that they could otherwise be using to make
progress with a wisely chosen designer. Creative competitions
prevent the intimate collaboration necessary for great solutions.
Competition results that are less effective than work produced
in a focused, collaborative professional relationship. In
a pitch, the goal is to get the job. In a relationship, the
goal is to help the client win. Competitions tend to produce
lowest-common-denominator kinds of solutions.” - Promax
Phony
speculative pitches: Ideas for free? Part-I - from an
agency prospective.
“After a detailed pitch process involving four agencies,
including the incumbent, we were told that we had failed to
make it. The client had retained the incumbent, not that there
was anything wrong with that. But two months later, the client
broke a new campaign that was a significant departure from
the earlier communication. Imagine our surprise when we saw
the new strategy was exactly what we had recommended during
our presentation. Even the creative execution bore a fair
bit of resemblance to what we had presented.” - Undisclosed
vice-president with a Top 10 agency.
Phony
speculative pitches: Ideas for free? Part-II - from an
agency prospective.
“Agencies will have to take a stand whereby they only
present their credentials and case studies. After all, the
client wants to know how good we are, and what better testimonial
than our existing clients? Once all the agencies make their
presentations, the client should pick two or three of them
for a strategy/creative pitch. And this, the client should
pay for.” - (J.S.) Mani, senior vice-president &
general manager, Bates India.
Jeff Fishers favorite ‘GAG stamped’ design competitions:
The
Summit Creative Awards A lot of times independent
designers and smaller design firms get lost among the "big
guys" in competitions. The Summit Awards were specifically
created for the smaller companies and people on their own.
They also have a sliding scale for entry fees based on billable
fees. The only thing I don't like is they charge you for certificates
if your designs win. You can get on their mailing list through
their website.
LOGO
2003, Creative Annual and American Corporate Identity Awards
These competitions are produced by David E. Carter.
I like them because they have an entry fee cap, you receive
a free copy of the book in which winning entries are published,
they provide you with two complimentary award certificates
for recognized projects and entries that don't win may appear
in future books Carter produces. I've gotten a lot of work
from potential clients having seen my work in his books.
PRINT Regional Design Annual This is the annual
competition of PRINT Magazine and it's always been one of
my favorites because of the number of winning entries selected,
the fact they are published in regional sections of the annual
and the exposure gained from the annual. Again, they have
a cap on entry fees, and provide you with a copy of the publication
and complimentary award certificates. They also post all winning
entries on their website.
Other Resources to Competitions:
Communication
Arts
Creativity
Annual
Digital
Thread
How's competitions
I.D. magazine
Media
Inspiration
Print's
annual competitions
Work
Book
The original about.com Graphic Design forum discussion can
be found here.
©2002, Catherine Morley
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